Today we continue talking about Friendship between Men and Women focusing on signs and how to deal with it..
According to the classification made in post 659, you should be dealing with signs as follows:
2) Wanna Sleep with (sex friend, slut,...etc). That is the easiest.. gestures, words, signs are too obvious. For those who know it, use it.. for el 2otat el meghamada, I wont be ur eye opener here ;)
3) Secrets Keeper and Eye Opener (real friend, mutual benefit, his guide in other sex's world). Usually the guy here is cautious at the begining and he gives conservative signs of interest of being together but within formal framework. Ya3ni, for example, if he likes cultural stuff, he may ask you to join him in a cultural event, and most prob. he will be inviting others too. In the outing, he will always be talking about the event and not about you. When he start feeling that you are categorizing him in the same category, he will open up and talk freely about himself without any confusing signs. May be this will develop into love signs later, but at that time, you will be knowing toooo much about him that u will know 3alatoool.
4) Red Lighter (don’t even think, trouble becomes her!) .. Hmm, this is an easy one like no.2, he will always try to not be present or around for a long time. He will also have very short and formal way of communications. He will never initiate an outing or something that make you come closer. If you are not interested, then you just let it go. If you want to show him that he is exaggerating, you need to take slow and easy, and prove -practically- that you are not the one he thinks you are. But you need to understand him first to know how can you have the right approach.
5) Good to know, without real knowledge of how to be classified now (postponed). This is as I said the most confusing. He will give all signs of interest and disinterest, intimacy and rejection. One day he asks you out, the other day he doesn't answer your communication. One day he get you gifts, the other day he ignores an appointment... He likes part of you but still cant take you as a package. He wants to change you to have the right complete picture in his head. Unless you are willing to change this is a dead-end relationship, give signs of rejection. If both of you are confused - 7aga te2ref- then take it slowly, and one step at a time. Don't think much till there is consistency in the relationship and try to be as transparent and honest as possible. El 7ekaya mesh na2sa tawahan!
So what I wanna say here is that there is no one size fits all. It all depends on the kind of communication you both have and how do you usually deal with the other gender. The above classification and tips are just a guide, but every relation has its own unique challenges as well.
Let me stop again & discuss, before getting into Engy's query in episode 3: Why men seem to have buttons? How come they have the ability to say and do things that they are not really feeling?
Mohaly
32 comments:
Bonjour Mohaly,
Can't wait for eps. 3:)
For this eps., I don't really know if I'm too much wise, too much stupid or I've never given misleading signs!
I got all the signs, understood them all, and even though I used to be "otta mghamada" yet I was able to get no.2 signs as well!
You know what, Signs are always clear; it's just sometimes we don't want to get them!
Mo,
I'm in a horrible situation and need some personal counselling. This one has gone far beyond all my capabilities and I need a second opinion before I do anything.
If you're happy to listen please contact me on my email:
tamersfahmy@hotmail.com
I really don't know how I get myself involved in these things.
I was reading what I've just posted and it looks like I've got myself involved in trouble of some sort. Well I am troubled but not in trouble, and it's nothing to do with me either. I just don't want to scare anyone here. (the way I wrote it scared me actually)
@Gypo,
U already scared one here, specially with your photo, it's so much in line with ur comment!!:))
Hope u find a way out off your touble!:)
Don't be scared, I'm behaving well here. And what's wrong with the picture??
I even look handsome in it :)
very well organized classification..
problem is.. a lot of men/women do not know EXACTLY what they want.. most are still confused as to which is it exactly.. so signs change and mix up and.. it's just a hassle.. human beings are massively confused!
great post though.. i strongly relate!
Again I second Engy. Signs are usually clear and we usually get them but denial is always our chosen strategy.
I think the most dangerous of all is the last type. For all the types, things are clear and easy. But it is the last one that gets us all trapped.
The yo-yo signs is what I really hate. It is the worst a man/ a woman can do. But women don't stick to these mixed feelings for long. They decide and the mixed signs soon gets consistent. But men, usually like to hang around that grey area for as long as they can and eventually ending up getting whatever they can get before abandoning ship.
I can't wait for more :)
Gypo, is that trouble related to bastrma? :))
Although I'm not in the mood at all but posting here actually lifts up my spirit usually.
La2 ya Shimo, not related to Basterma at all. In fact the last lot of Basterma was all thrown in the bin as it was left for a very long time untill it lost all the juices and tasted extremely bitter (besides it looked like a mummy's flesh and needed a chain saw to cut).
El 7a2i2a ba2a I treated myself with a very Egyptian meal this morning. I bought a bag of beans (you don't know how hard it is to find it here)and had fool medammes for breakfast, bel zeit wel lamoun wel basal el akhdar and wholemeal toast (3ashan mafeesh balady hena).
Sunday morning :) my new favorite time of the week!
I agree with Shimaa that women's mixed signals soon to be vanished cause they tend to know what they want. But by men hanging around, not deciding what they want, I think he plays the safest card, no strings attached, no responsibilities and she still in his life, fi a7san mn kda?
Now I have two questions;
• Is this possible for a man to classify one woman to both #1 and #5 in the same time?
• All the 5 classifications you've mentioned seem to lead to a love relationship, is this means that there is no way of having innocent friendship with a man (rather than putting limits/stop signs of our own)? naftred so2 l neya dayman ya3ni w nd7'ol bi our limits?
Cant wait for the next Sunday morning :)
Alf hana ya Gypo, I hope your troubles will clear soon.
bas za3lteny 3ala el basterma :) da ana khalas kont ba3mel akhier el khatwat to go incorporated :))
Gypo, ra3abteni!!!
Engy, interesting!
Evaluna.. Welcome (are u a relative of Saraluna? the blog reader here)
Deppy:
1. If 1 & 5, then he is 5 :)
2. That is normal, everything can lead to love, we are all seeking love, but no.3 is a sincere one and it doesnt turn to love unless both want it to.
OK, now that I have gotten rid of my burden, let me think about this topic a little.
To make things easier (it might make it worse but you'll decide), I'll have to narrow the classification into two categories only based on the cultural background. The first category (both genders) are most of the middle class with higher education and most probably descending from old well known families and some of the upper class members. The second category includes Nouveau riche upper class members and lower classes as well as internal immigrants from poorer regions of Egypt which is usually combined with a mild to a very conservative background.
As we all know that 96% of Egypt is desert and people of all categories live on the tiny 4% remaining, so people started moving to the larger cities (mainly Cairo - Masr) and they blended in with the prevailing culture found in Cairo.
The problem is that both classes are like oil and water but being stirred vigorously, the border lines between classes is not clearly visible at the beginning so you find in Egypt the two extremes, from extremely liberal to the opposite extreme of conservatism all found together, but the differences are visible still to the keen eye, it's always visible in the way people talk, the way they walk, their behaviour towards external influences, and their reactions in different situations.
Now I'd classify 1 and 2 as associated with the more conservative category. 2 is more associated with the Nouveau riche more than with the conservative, although 1 is the only approach known to the conservative class to achieve 2 (wanna sleep with).
Mohaly's catogeries 3,4, and 5 would fall under my method into the other category, i.e. with the more liberal and modern people, as this category of people have broader views, career oriented, and they are well exposed to the other gender that they will treat members of the other gender as equals and as people at the same cultural level and same level of education, and here is where it gets confusing when both categories bump into each other, both their understanding of friendship and cross gender relationships are different and what one category might understand as love signs the other may understand it as politeness and classy behaviour. What is understood as a relation on one side is considered an innocent friendship on the other side.
Based on that classification system, the more liberal people will behave in the following order:
1) Red lighter till I gain confidence
2) either stay at this stage or move on to 3 or 5
3) secrets keeper usually stays at this stage and rarely moves on to category 1. Good to know may or may not move on to category 1 after a while.
I hope I made any sense in what I wrote. (and I hope it made things clearer).
Shaimaa,
Bastermet-Co. is still our registered trade mark. We zay ma oltelek our business now includes Cod's roe (batarekh) and south african biltong. I make both at home by the way;)
You are the best business partner ever ya Gypo :)
I can't wait to dominate the world market ;)
And I like the classes categorization. It could apply on many Egyptian problems. And it doesn't mean that any of the two categories you mentioned is more right or wrong than the other.
But I don't think that all men from category 1 are that open-minded or all men from category 2 would end up with the "jump in your pants" option.
I think the problem starts when someone pretends to believe in something that he doesn't really believe in.
Personally I am someone who will encourage people to maintain their heritage of traditions. If people weren't under the social pressure of fitting into certain images, many of the problems will be automatically solved. And we won't be having many people living on the extreme sides of things.
But they have to fit, so they pretend and el tab3 always ye3'leb el tatabo3.
I also agree with you ya Shaimaa, I seemed to have overlooked pretending which plays a major part in this classification. It is vague most of the time I have to admit.
The article is very good, thank you :), and the discussion is interesting too. I want to point out something that nobody mentioned "feelings in each case"…I think feelings are the main driver plus personalities, past experiences and the situation itself, adding to it the classes that Gypo mentioned (if there is a Big gap in social and cultural status)
When it comes to relationships, emotions and the need to feel secured is the main driver of girls' attitudes and actions, so I suggest that men (if they want to understand a girl) should try to understand the motive behind actions not the action literally :). That's why we girls sometimes send misleading signals (not on intention), fear to get hurt is the greatest reason from my point of view, on the other hand she will be very happy to find the person who gives her that security.
I would like to apply this perspective (practically) on the classifications and signs mentioned:
For potential lover, the guy shows signs (level of secured feelings increases), so if she is interested too, she will show signs to encourage, signs between the lines, but after that she expects further direct steps from him, if he did, this is great, but if he didn't, she will get disappointed and will be reflected on her attitude. it's about fulfilling each others' needs, and moving forward steps.
As for the eye opener, I think men sometimes seek a female friend whom they trust her mind and opinion to guide them in specific problems and sometimes to give support in bad times, but no more…some girls misunderstand that kind of support sought by men and consider it interest and attention.
The red lighter, Could you please explain more…He is interested but do not show and hide his interest behind formal attitude and rejection ,why? (Fear of rejection, fear of commitment, or what? and how she will know that if what she sees are rejection signs and formal attitude? And why trouble becomes her? :)
No.5 I have the same comment as no.1…but not answering her communication or ignoring appointment (the confidence level and secured feelings here will drop bec. of such very aggressive actions) and the girl will be anticipating..It's not an ease situation. If there is confusion, both should be transparent, but it will be very hard on her to be 100% transparent while he is mysterious!
Sorry for the long comment, But I was trying to analyze why relationships sometimes get stuck or misunderstood regarding the points mentioned, and I would like if you showed males' point of view regarding this.
Good post "as usual", I would like to add some comments..
1. As you mentioned, those categories can vary a lot, in many cases non of them can be applied on some people.
2. Those signs are not always from men towards women, sometimes it's vice verse, and this includes all the 5 categories.
3. I disagree with the fact that "Eye openers,Secret keepers" are usually girls that are not attractive as a potential lover nor as a "wanna sleep with which means physically attracted to", I think this is kinda offensive, and you can have a friend that you find her physically attractive, but sometimes friendship is the best solution..
I love your blog
Gypo..
Very well organized thinking which is something I always admire. In your comment you said your categorization is based on cultural aspect, but it's mainly based on a social aspect from the financial point of view.
You also said something about the existence of the 2 extreme classes in Egypt, I think both classes blend well in each other combining several middle classes "da based on the social point of view bardo"
Shaimaa..
as you mentioned, you encourage people to maintain their heritage of traditions, you think that's the main reason for them not to try playing some social rules that aren't theirs in the first place? you think that our traditions are the only safe solution for avoiding the social pressure to fit a certain image? or maybe I am misunderstanding your point here.
Traditions are not a way of protecting us because that means without them we're lost, it's like a kid who always needs the presense of his parents so he can behave well..
sorry I moved into a different subject here but I needed to understand
Thanks ya Ahmad, but please read my analysis again, I still believe that it's strictly based on a cultural background. Look around you and you'll see that the liberal people are considered among the poorest category financially, their only investment is usually in education. While on the other hand among the very well to do categories you'd find the most uneducated and narrow minded people. It's a cultural background.
And also I have mentioned that they have blended in, but it read,"The problem is that both classes are like oil and water but being stirred vigorously, the border lines between classes is not clearly visible".
Hey hey hey,
I miss having these arguments here in this blog. It's been over two years since I last wrote something on your blog ya Mo.
This is not related at all to this post, but I'd like to tell you that at the same time you had that hail storm in Egypt, it started raining here non stop since then and till now. 4 days of rain and the streets are still dry and traffic is flowing as smoothly as always.
Ah ya balad....(kammelha enta ya mohaly, I think you still remember it).
Hello Ahmad
I think I need to elaborate on what I said to make it clear.
I like the class classification, but I don't think that all men in class "a" have the degree of open-mindedness that make them have the 5 classifications Mohaly wrote about.
Because we have to admit that there is type of men who sees women as only a source for pleasure. So, it is always category 2.
And personally I don't mind having these type of men around what I really mind is to have them in disguise preaching pro women ideologies and claiming that they have female friends in the time they are only having them around for ego reasons and waiting for the right time to attack.
As for keeping traditions alive, and being proud of heritage it is not that tradition would save us from whatever evil. And it is not a call for a closed community.
It more a call for cherishing one's identity. In a broader spectrum which isn't related to the topic, I am hating what I call the Carienization of Egypt. People are losing their home town dialects, customs ... etc in favor in what people are doing in Cairo.
People are losing the identity they carry from their parents to what they see in the television.
In the broader spectrum that isn't related to the topic Egypt lost, and is continuing to lose the Egyptian identity.
How maintaining personal identity could help with the social class categorization Gypo suggested, or even related to the mixed signs men give to women. it is that simply if the person stayed true to whatever he believes in. If the person's ideology is with categorizing all women into only one of the 5 groups. He wouldn't be giving mixed signs.
Yet, I have to point out that I think that a man who wouldn't give mixed signs doesn't exist because simply we give mixed signs when we have mixed feelings. The problem arises when the mixed feelings settle and the person keep sending them. Or this is the problem from a woman's point of view. Girls waste long hours on phone with their girl friends over analyzing the significance of the word "hello" in a conversation. I don't know about men. And I am not sure if a man will intentionally say "hello" in a certain tone so that a girl stay up all night thinking about what he really meant by this hello.
And right now I just discovered that I broke my promise to myself that I will be only observer in this topic :)
And this proves en el tab3 ye3'leb el tatabo3 :)
Back to the observer seat
sunflowers,
actually in the red lighter, he is afraid to get close, he may be interested or not but in both cases he uses same technique.
Ahmad,
I didn't mean that real friends are not attractive. They may be physically attractive but for one reason or another they cant be our lovers. Plus usually cross-gender friends are not very much attracted on the physical level and that is not offending as people have different tastes.
Ahmed
thank u :)
Gypo:
wala zaman
actually the new version
"ah ya balad, men ghier hodom"
hey, here's an article about men's mixed signals
http://allwomenstalk.com/12-tips-on-how-to-read-mens-mixed-signals/
@Deppy:
Where's tip #12??
A male friend asked me to stop this series as he see that it is not right to let women know about how do men think, imagine!!
Great post ...but i need some time to digest it to be able to comment!begad mosh 3arfa ..bs it is complicated (cannot believe this is me admitting it)
Gypo ..interesting classification and ideas.
Actually ya Mohaly, it's better to end this debate, as the girls may really understand the fact that boys are much shallower than they think. And that they really do over analyse every gesture until they decifer the hidden message that never even cross our simple minds, and at the end when they read the message (that we never sent), they think that we're extremely smart and wicked (cheeky bastards in Australian slang).
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