-------- "This is the time for action not only words, use your God given gifts to develop this country, dont be afraid to speak up, and feel PROUD THAT U R EGYPTIAN." -------- Mohaly, Feb 2011

Wednesday, September 23, 2009

607) The Certainty about Virginity!

I find the way we handle the issue of virginity in our society a pure sort of hypocrisy and double standards. How come we are entering the 2nd decade of the 21st century, and a vast majority of us are still valuing and classifying women according to z-sometimes only according to- physical virginity?

I am not calling for having an open pre-marital sexual relations (although I still believe that it is totally a personal choice, and something that is hard to judge as it is All mighty God's not us who can judge, and punish- unless publically witnessed by 4 which is practically almost impossible ...etc.).

For the Hypocrisy part, we all know that now it is very easy for any girl to do what she wants and keep her virginity:

1. Either by going through all the steps the last step (you know what I mean).

2. Having an operation.

3. And now the latest Chinese -why am I not surprized- invention below!

So are we fooling ourselves or what?

For the Double Standards, I can't understand how come it is relatively acceptable -sometimes "desirable"- for men to have pre-marital sexual relations while women are always to be blamed and judged! I personally see virginity as an attitude and respect before being a physical test to prove it, whether you are a man or a woman!

Last and not least, why I do I feel that China understands us more than ourselves? They know that the Arab Culture is generally pro being satisfied if everything in public or on paper is fine, even if it is actually not!


القاهرة - قالت تقارير صحفية ان الاسوق السورية استقبلت في الايام الاخيرة "أغشية بكارة صناعية" مستوردة من الصين.

واشار تقرير لوكالة انباء دي برس السورية ان غشاء بكارة الصينى يباع في العاصمة السورية دمشق مقابل 15 دولار.

ونقلت الوكالة نص الإعلان الشائع في شوارع المدن الصينية الذي يقول "استعيدي عذريتك في خمس دقائق ، المنتج التكنولوجي الراقي.. سرك المفزع يختفي للأبد ، استعيدي عذريتك بخمسة عشر دولارا ، بلا جراحة، ولا حقن، ولا أدوية ولا آثار جانبية بخمسة عشر دولارا فقط".


cairo, lusaka, amsterdam said...

Great post. This was one of the things that really bothered me when I lived in Cairo: women are expected to be virgins, while men are actually encouraged NOT to be! It's ridiculous.

Marwa said...

مش معقول بجد ، حتى دة...فلتحيا الصين


Shimaa Gamal said...

First kol sana wenta tayeb I hope you enjoyed your Eid
Second, I really like the shirt, hilarious :) This comes next to my all time favorite "I am sexy, I am hot, I am everything you are not" :)

The issue of virginity in the Arab world lacks logic. ya3ny as you said sometimes it is desirable to men to have pre-marital sexual relations. tayeb lama howa keda how come females will stay virgins bardo? unless ba2a ye3melo group of females yesamoh group el training el regala te3ot ma3ahom abl el gawaz and then group tany esmoh group el tanfeez dah ba2a el virgins. But yet, lazem yedmano en mafish 7ad mn el group dah hayroo7 el group dah.
dah 3'ier ba2a the hunt for a pure virgin. elly heya soon will be ma3 el 3'ool wel 3anka2 wel khel el wafy. Men still look for a girl elly ma3rftesh ragel fi 7ayataha abadan.

The subject is beyond virginity. it is about how the community encourge fraud. le2n this community momken ye2bal menak ay 7aga as far as enoh may3rafsh el 7a2ee2a. you may lie, kill or do whatever you want el mohem enak te7afez 3ala el mazaher.

E N G Y said...

Hi Mohaly…

Talking about virginity is a controversial subject..I think that’s because we do have a double standards and we are kinda schizophrenic here, I mean we think in a way but when it comes to action, we act in an absolute different way!

Taking myself as an example, I really believe that I must not judge a girl according to her physical virginity, I do believe that if 2 people are in love they may hold hands, hug and kiss, I believe that they do this out of love not out of instinct or physical desire and I know that they may go further bardo out of love I know this and I am convinced of it, yet I don’t accept this by all means!! and I do judge the girls who do this!!..Am I not acting schizophrenic here cause I think something and act another thing?!, aren’t we all do the same?!

Now the question goes to you , knowing that we are in 2000’s and we should think in a different way regarding the virginity and relationships and all this stuff and knowing that being a virgin does not prove anything now, the question is: If you met the right girl and you liked her and of course to like her , she must be good, polite and respectful enough, if you knew later –before or after marriage- that she is not virgin, would it be “OK” with you?, would you continue feeling and thinking the same about her?, would you be able go on with her?
I really don’t think so.

Of course I didn’t mean “you” in my question, it’s just because I am taking to you:)

We’re all thinking in a hypocrisy way Mohaly no matter what we say, maybe it’s because we are tearing apart between our culture and religion from a side and being open and more civilized from the other side!!..I really don’t know!

Ola said...

Dear Dr. Mohamed,
I think that some issues are not a matter of personal believes & choices. When things come to our religion; 7alal w 7aram, then we shouldn't discuss it & leave ourselves to think about and analyze. Of course this is your own blog & you are free to say whatever you want, I am talking here about any one who reads your post, gives himself / herself a space to think about that issue, may be a person who can take your words in a wrong way, may be that person is a bit hazy and can be easily influenced by any thing.
I don't know, but i learned long time ago that when it comes to religion, a clear issue i mean, then I shouldn't give myself a space to think about it even, no matter what the community says. In fact when I open the T.V on some guy who is discussing a clear religious issue and he is "yadlo b dalwo", I never listen, you know if I leave my mind to think about what he says, I might, even on the subconscious level like something that I shouldn't do!!
About the double standards thing in general, welcome to Egypt:)
And of course the brilliant Chinese people understand us better than ourselves:D

amina said...

ana mesh mesada2a

amina said...

la ana mesh mesada2a begad!

H.A.W. said...

hi everybody
Ola, what Dr. Mohamed discusses here is the concept of double standards, not what is 7alal and 7aram.
of course there is no space for any other "opinion" when it comes to religion- no matters which one.

now, should we kill someone for committing a sin? we are not Allah. none has the right to judge or punish those who did a mistake. sa7?
Allah knows what they did, who they are and that's it. if Allah forgives, who are we to judge here?????

AND, what the community accepts from a man and doesnt accept from a girl, this is unacceptable.
second, this concept should not be the only measure to judge a girl. its "invalid" because of the many "solutions" we have nowadays. therefore we -as arab community- should have other criterias to choose life partner.
check the part Dr. Mohamed marked as bold- it explains his point of view. in the word "respect" he summerized all "good" aspects of a person.
hope i was able to explain my point :))))

Mohaly said...

Cairo, lusaka, Amsterdam:
3andek 7a2.

Marwa & Amina:
we aktar men keda kaman.

-Wenti Tayeba, yes I did thanks.
-&7elwa I am everything you are not... tab I am not stupid, are you ;)
-everything is becoming fake even feelings

Mohaly said...

You touched a point that annoys me a lot. I -really- consider the person as who she is today not before as long as it is over, but everyone I meet including family consider me "ahbal" because of saying so. Howa bardo mesh fe 7aga esmaha tooba?!

I really can't express myself better than what HAW said. Thanks HAW.

Mohaly said...

ah belmonsaba.. why all the comments are from females in this post ;)

NoMore said...


Artificial Hymen
USD 29.90
Product ID: 225599

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This Adult Sex Toy Feature:

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Estimated Weight = 0.08 kg

Tamer Mokhtar said...

they found out the need and they invented a solution, and after while they will discover there is a need also to have a machine to be sure that it's Chinese product wala aslly :)

or maybe something works with pin code, or sensor to detect or combo product for multiple usage!

wel 7aga om el ekhtera3 :)

E N G Y said...

Feah 7aga esmaha tooba tab3an..but we forget this..I did until I read ur reply!!
Am speachless..fe3lan, mesh feah 7aga esmaha tooba!!??

Anonymous said...

I knew about this for some while now, I've been wanting to post about it since, only I always felt blank!

The topic is actually funny for me because a marriage in my family fell apart right after the feast because people lie and because they don't know squat about building lives together, I'm wondering what would've happened if virginity was the problem.

Actually, I'm thinking right now about an ever more funnier thing. If our problems were somehow expurgated into just 'virginity' we will be happier!

You're a virgin? great I can marry you. If you're not, then sorry. Or, I'm okay with you not being a virgin, so I'll marry you.

I won't have to ask about many other things, do you lie, do you steel and embezzle, do you cheat, are you a hypocrite, are you freaking honest and sound with yourself and others?

So, NO!, and I'm saying it again for the thousandth time to this sick sad excuse of a society we're living in, do not make a big deal out of this, you're fooling yourself, you're covering your darkest mistakes, the ones that, if you just for a freaking minute think and use your useless crappy minds, practically led to all this.

You're so in denial that you're in denial about your own denial! I AM WAITING EAGERLY for the day the commercials bring the HYMEN thing on the screen, and yes I'm saying HYMEN to all the headless fouls who think saying it is taboo, and I'm telling you Mohaly, though I'm sure it's quite predictable, about what will happen when manufactured hymens are broadcasted in front of children and (bohoo) religious people.

Will I accept a girl who's not a virgin?

This is a scary question because of one thing, sometimes, you go with the flow, and guess why? because whether you liked it or not, you're a part of this society, somehow its sick identity pelted your back with stained conceptions, ones that you try and overcome daily, and I do that all the time.

My answer is. I DON'T FREAKING KNOW, I'm not a prophet, I have HUGE falls, and I don't have what it takes to consider virginity bigger than ANY of them, and even if I did, I can't take Karma for granted on this, it has its upturns.

If I say no to her to take customs and traditions side and be the 'sane' and 'mesh ahbal', well, I, saaaadly, have enough intellect in my mind to tell myself that I'm fooling myself, and that 'she' might actually be 'the one' I'm just throwing away, a one that may have actually passed penance and turned into an angel! And even if she didn't do 'Tawba', well so what! (an Ahmed Mekky-ish soo whaaaat?!), mana 3andy balawy ya3ny.

Anonymous said...

While if I say yes, oh oh oh, the society part in me, the tumor that won't go away from me because I'm an Egyptian bardo! The one I'm trying to cure for as long as I've been sober enough to regard the mob, but sometimes in vain, it will emerge! It'll be excreted keda fluttering like a freaking flag before my naked eyes, telling me: "Eh elly enta bete3melo dah! Da enta el mafrood a7san menha! Ahlak ye2olo 3alik eh? Da enta abook shekh ya akhy, Law el Geraan 3erfo ye2olo eh? Da efred reg3et tany, tab enta esh dammanak?" And the endless excruciating paradox goes on and on.

This is exactly the 'Fetna' our dear prophet told us about wallahe, but the least we can do for what respectful and honest thinking is all about, is to regard it that way, and to know that bombarding our heads with discussions about whether a manufactured hymen is right or wrong is TOTALLY USELESS and HYPOCRITICAL and JUST WRONG.

This girl, if she TOLD me she's not a virgin, then begadd begadd ya3ny, she strode up the list like a shining knight wallahe, I mean if she's honest about something like this, then 'honesty' can be safely go like: "check! what's next". I mean she literally doesn't have double standards!

If I check honesty, then guess what, I can now talk to her honestly too about my concerns (if I had any, I don't know what 'future me' would look like) and we will reach safe base very VERY easily.


I have bass some funny comments about making manufactured hymens to be used in Egypt:

- El gawaz el 3orfy - saba7 el maskhara! Girls will now have ways to get back at guys finally! And if organized prostitution won't be intact, organized gawaz 3orfy will be!

- The respectful girls ba2a who'll be doubted! Ya3ny I can imagine enn fe 7awanat keteer fel balad, and by that I mean old demented women who ruin lives. And even the ones who'll have reasons to doubt will be lost in the chaos as well.

I mean it won't be new, people lie already, bass we'll add variability, people will waste more time in the media, dads will have to purchase a surplus of Panadol for the headache, but after some time, everything will saturate as usual, and people ..


Sorry for the long comment, and sorry if I sounded stern, I'm just emotionally exhausted because of that marriage in my family thing.

Also, I'd like to make it very clear that I'm not generalizing, and that I was talking only about my own personality, which could be wrong, and could be also right, I'm not sure enough.

Shimaa Gamal said...

Well, I guess you too should wear one of these t-shirts :)
bas ana wenta nemshy ganb ba3d we netala3 lessana lel nas :) :) :)

Mohaly said...

well said Ibhog

BaTaBeeT said...

WTF !!!

well I believe virginity is an attitude do....

I know alooooot who do everything but they still do keep their virginities... and with like 350 LE you can be as good as new... so you can never judge a gurl cause she's a virgin cause there are virgins who are aloooooot much worse than who are not !

I hate this society !

Maha Aly said...

What a post Mohaly !!
While we are drawn in our issues "virgin or not, vieled or not, praying/fasting or not, and so on ..."
China invented the solution, all girls will be virgins (even prostitutes) as some guys pay more for virgin girls!
The next step, they will invent a detector for guys to check if the girl is "originally virgin" or having an "artificial virginity".

Talking about double standards?! ... HELLO! WAKE UP! we are in Egypt my dear !

Mohaly, i have been thinking about your post "a citizin resignation" for a while now, do you think it's possible to quite thinking about things happening around us? do you think there is really a chance that we could change anything/anyone? change how ppl think/act/judge other ppl?
Do you think it's possible that i can leave in my own "CLEAN PLANET" reagardless whatever around me?

E N G Y said...

@ ibhog,that's exactly what I meant by my question in my comment.
Well explained!

sherry said...

what an issue.....I like the fact that finally I feel guys are raising the right question.....
I was wondering about the virginity part in the last couple years as I have become a divorced woman....it was amazing to find out whoever wud know this fact will treat me as "well, u hv got rid of the virginity part"! for a while the defense mechanism was aroused...then finally i decided to conceal this fact till i find the man i cud share with knowing it won't lessen his respect coz for God's sake virginity is a behavioural thing not physical....this is what I think.....As for the society and double standards, it never ends...To be me & to live according to My values not what the society may label me, I discovered I have to appreciate the word privacy which we don't unforetunately coz even ppl with good intentions cud harm u with fixing u with unwanted grooms or giving u unwanted perspectives!
Thank u begad for raising this issue from male perspective .....I think begad this blog is playing role in social development :)

Mohaly said...

Sherry, I am happy to hear that you are having peace with yourself, it is a great feeling, and believe it or not I get into a better mode when I see people in peace with themselves and others even if I don't know them.

Thanks for the encouraging words, and hope to see you here more often.

H.A.W. said...

if WE dont fight against double standards, then we will never get rid of it. it will kill us at the end. do you want this??
we cant just keep silent and hope it will change. unfortunately, hope doesnt change anything in reality. its only changed with power and actions. :)))

as for the clean planet, dear, again, this needs out action. maho there are 2 options:
- keep trying to change it and work on it, even in very small circles
- give up and leave the country.
as long as we are stuck here- why not try the only option we have??
wallahi i hate getting to my destination with dirty hands and feets while i am not even walking on street- but sitting in my car.
and i hate the routine of cleaning my hands and feet with wipes while i am in the elevator- because i feel dirty.
i hate seeing dirt and garbage on streets and everyone walks by and none cares or even is upset about it.
bas ya maha, try to give up keda and see what will happen.
you will feel worse, because you will be doing soemthing against your nature.
ma3lesh, be little more patient and keep on going. and belive me- its got nothing to do with poverty or education or anything.
this is pure human action.
my neighbour - a mo7taram engineer-gives his garbage bag to the bawab to throw it on the street. and we pay to the bawab to keep it till the garbage man comes to take it.
el mohandes el mo7taram doesnt want to pay 5 EGP to the garbage man.
what do you say about that?

negative things will remain unless we do anything about it.
if you care for your children, then keep trying.
no other choice :))))))

as for the chinese, its not their fault 7abibty. its us again. back to square one: we should change :)))

Ahmad Bekdash said...

I totally agree with you, If a man had a sex relation why does he blame the girl that does so!

I think he doesn't have the right to do so.

As for China; They know what we don't know about ourselves :)

Best Regards

Reem Zakaria said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Reem Zakaria said...

Vocabulary Mistake .. Dun Mind Me :D ,

Lately I've been enjoying reading for the Invincible Duo , Moh Ali and IBHOG .. One of you writes an exquisite post .. wel tani yenzel be comment agmad .. you guys should consider having some sort of Conjoined Blog someday !! .. Love it and Keep Up the good Work :)

Maha Aly said...

Wallahy i am trying my best & normally i don't give up easily but i feel i am on the way to do so!
PPl around me - including my family members - say i am obsessed with cleaning, they mock about me carrying dettol wipes & spray everywhere & smelling a glass before i drink but that's me, i hate dust & dirt but i live in Egypt!

About your neighbour, this is called "natana" walamo2akhza :)

Mohaly said...

Reem: Thank You :) I was thinking about that too (not blog but a series), and gave hint to Ibhog on his blog 2 weeks ago but didnt have the time to do it, but will do someday inshaa-Allah.

Mariam said...

Mariam Bekdash

loooooool msA....
el 7al el seni dayman ar'7as we as-hal!!! yes they understand us awiiii we metab3enna gedaan...

about the subject itself... fa dih 7aga taba3 el thakafa be shakl serf! ya3ni acc. to religion men and women r treated the same in such a case... laken fe3lan el mogtama3 bey3amel el bent eli "te'3lat" marra ka2enaha da3et we 3omro mabeye'3ferlaha

baynama el walad aslan "dah" emsh '3altah dih regola!!

be'3ad el nazar 3an daaah.. my view ba2a eno sexual relationships be4 marriage r wrong we mesh accepted sawa2 lel walad aw lel bent.. however what if they have already changed??? law tabo?? law kanet '3alta fi zorof mo3ayan?? law kanet be sabab 2elet '7ebra... aw engeraf fi tagroba mothira ... should their lives end ba2a!! howa rabena beysame7... bas hal el mogtama3 haysame7??? tab bel 7alah dih el wa7ed aw el wa7da ye'7abo bema eno kan madi wala may'7abosh bas yetshahar behom...

dilemma brdo mesh keda!

Mariam said...

I'd like 2 add, eni begad i was soo happy to read people's comments here be'7telaf ara2hom we ro2yet-hom...

ya3ni lessa fih amal in our society :D

and thank u Mohammad Aly for such a post and such a blog.

MariannE_N said...

hmmm ... I was really thinking of this issue before, the question is: why did God created it? I mean, I believe there's a reason for this, but what is it? ana bas2al begad

Mohaly said...

Thanks a lot Mariam, and welcome to the blog :)

H.A.W. said...

i ve been thinking about your comment and reading it over and over.
all i can tell you is
- you need to have a clear YES or NO, and be ready to stand for it.
- family and neighbours neednt know. actually you should protect her, not tell her secret.
- if she is honest enough to tell, means she is deep down good. dont let go, and only you will be able to stop the tumor in your head to grow and practically kill it- BUT, if you really love her.
- are you willing to let others control your life, how it goes, where it goes, and where you end up? if you do, no problem, only you will never be happy, because its not YOU.
- if you think of a NO, put yourself in her shoe and see how much that hurts. you see, none is a saint.
- if you prefer to be fooled than face the challange, you will be missing the reward: happiness.

i am not for a yes or a no, but i am for honesty and clear vision. if you accept to be fooled, dont be surprised how many times in your life you will be fooled.
when you guys encourage a lie once, it will repeat itself over and over again.
if we all encourage honesty, i am positive, one day this phenomen will disappear.
there will be no need for girls to lie, when they know out there are respectable gentlemen, who are willing to give a second chance.

i am not encouraging to blindely accept someone, bas give the chance. she might be worth the second look.
guys, just be human.

Tota said...

I don't get it , how is it acceptable that a man can be "experienced" in that area and not for a woman???? it's totally unacceptable for me if he expects me to be "inexperienced" then it's my right to expect the same as well!

If a man thinks a woman with a past experience is not worthy to be his wife ,then he's not worthy of a virgin wife as well if he had the same experience ,And hell yeah I am being judgmental :)

I think after the Chinese invention , men will choose a spouse on a more mature perspective , cause it's very cheap now...and I am so happy cause women will have the right to undo their mistakes as well and they will fool each other fairly :D


Noha said...

some just don't care, others (mostly middle class) will do it instead of the operation.

Anonymous said...

thank you for your endorsement :)

Thanks, flattered. And I'd like to tell you, that Mohaly's style provokes good writing really, his posts are focused and to the point, and he always manages to give me the exact start I need!

Btw, conjoined writing is sort of my thing, I'm better at it than solo!

you're absolutely right about being decisive, and honesty is my all time mantra, I was just stating a fact I wouldn't want to deny, I have an Egyptian tumor, and I'm working hard to cure it, and that's something I'll share openly with 'her' someday because it's a part of who I am, maybe the 'honest she' would help me after all.

I relate to and totally understand the 'be human' part, and I will do my best to meet it :)


I'm short on time too, I have many ideas I was going to blog about, but I'm currently busy with my series. And I WILL find time to comment on your latest too posts!

Omar Rostom said...

howa lesa feih nas betfakar keda, bala waksa!

The practical use I see for this product is that wives (or girlfriends) can use it on their anniversary to have a special night again ;))

jamal said...

Islam may differentiate between fornication and adultery: though both are prohibited, the dominate judicial opinion says adultery is punishable by stoning to death, fornication is punishable by lashing. If only one of the parties is married, the married one is stoned, and the unmarried one is lashed. The other juducial opinion subject adultery and fornication to the same punishment of lashing.

Tamer Mokhtar said...

what i expect from china soon, to upgrade the product with more visual and voice features, like lighting or e7tares al sayara targa3 ela el khalf :)or 7omola 2 nafar, el shokok manoo3 wel za3al marfood, etc...

Shimaa Gamal said...

Omar, I have been told that a romantic woman surprised her husband in their 1st ani. by have the restoration surgery. He divorced her the moment he discovered it.

His reason was: madam 3arfa taree2 el 3amlya ana esh damny enek konty virgin in the 1st place.

Welcome to the Egyptian Men's mind.

ahmed said...

غشاء البكارة الصيني يتم تداوله بطريقة سرية في مص

Redzo said...

what if the man that had pre-marital relation would lost some physical aspects of virginity ... How would the society treat such a topic ... I really liked the last paragraph ... Yes the building of the nation is getting very weak, I wish we could retrieve our virginity.
Finally I'm :0 in front of your blog I really I admire it ... I'm Coming :D

Mohaly said...

Thanks Redzo :)

Hicham said...

You hit the nail on the head with this, Mohaly and you said almost all of what I want to say regarding the double standards especially in this issue explain well how we care about 'outside' no matter what 'inside' is and this is in everything.

Me too think 'China' understand the mood of the people well better than Egyptians themselves and this one is a proof. Look in Ramadan when they used to make 'fawaneess' and this 'mofatesh korombo'

sumon220 said...

Thanks your nice post like it too much.

Mohaly said...

You are welcome.. :)