Do you know that we are the 3rd generation since pre-history that doesn't have "gawary" or "melk el yamin". For thousands of years men could legitimately have the right to have relations with women other than his wife. Now all that is over .. Is this good or bad news?! P.S. lately I have met many people and read more than an article longing to the Hareem Age and feeling bad that they weren't living at that time!
Mohaly
82 comments:
:))))))))))))))
elaborate ! what's ur point ?
"We" is very confusing to me ! coz U R muslim and according to Islam, U may marry four wives conditional of course......
is the point about legetimacy of having a relation with more than one woman ...or about how polygamcy lead to increased numbers of unmarried women?
it is ambiguis , at least as I read it.
a person: lately I have met many people and read more than an article longing to the Hareem Age and feeling bad that they weren't living at that time! I am trying to figure out why? and how can it be good?
Mohaly, I guess you are talking here about a "relationship" whether it's marriage or not !!
May be it's about the culture, Arab men in general are raised with this belief that it's "OK" for them to have several relations with women other than their wives although they -men- would not accept "THE IDEA" of their women having any other relation with anyone!! & their excuse would typically be "I AM A MAN" !!
For me i see it this way:
Dishonesty,disrespect to the other part & tafasa w faraghet 3een !
Anon: Sorry about the confusion.
"We" is the generation living in this area of the world.
Being Muslim has nothing to do with it as this was present even before Islam. I am talking here about all "7areem" not not wives. Marriage is a union with equal rights & duties, but "melk el yameen" were just followers.
So what I am trying to figure out is how can this be "better" than now as some people started to claim lately!
Mohaly, do u really mean it when u said: " men could legitimately have the right to have relations with women other than his wife. Now all that is over ..",
Do u really think that now all that is over!!!!!!
I guess not; it hasn't ever been over ....
Most of the times now married men have another relations rather than their wives.. The difference only is that at old times only rich men (who could buy gawary) were the only ones able to do this... But Now it's ok for everyone :)
marwa,
Yes i mean it. Gawaz 3urfi is not legitimate in the way it is done, boy girl friend samething, and akeed prostitution isnt. So how can u have a legitimate relation in the arab region other than marriage in the 21st century.
truly confused now mohaly..is it about what is called? ekhtilaf mosamayat.....
Anyway, what do u mean by legitimate? what rights had those women "as hareem" ? what rights had their men?
it is all the same throughout history......only different "labels".....And what do u mean by legitimate relation other than marriage....did i miss something or is it the only way allowed by allah?
if the person isn't a religious person, all options are allowed anyway......
anon: i am the one confused by not being able to know what name shall i address u.
No, melk el yameeen is allowed by religion and it legitimate whether u r relegious or not.
My questipn was specififc, why may some people consider 3asr el 7areem is better than the 21st century.. that simple.
Mohaly, I guess the answer to your question is simple, as some men wish to have several & different relations without all the obligations that come with any relationship.
Also, during 3asr el7areem, this idea was accepted and normal, now it's not (however many men are still living in 3asr el7areem "secretly")
Wait, lemme get this right, you (not you, they) mean nowadays is not '3asr 7areem'?
With exploded adultery, solicitation and women trafficking rates across the world.
With this amount of pornographic information on the web, and sexual harassment breakouts.
All kinds of rape crimes! and the disgusting cinema industry with all kinds of 7areem a man can possibly desire! :S
Sorry to sound harsh, but whoever thinks we should be able to get the so called '3asr 7areem' back is either kidding or endlessly insensitive!
And please. If a man (here in Egypt for that matter), wants a woman, he can get one! The only bar we haven't reached yet is to organize adultery and prostitution in Egypt, a thing in my opinion that would help solve a lot of problems, first of which to teach people to be frank about their desires, not live in denial their whole lives! (el gawz el 3orfy is a perfect example of living in denial!)
And if someone argues about God's dispensation not allowing it, well BoHoo! men emta we're following God's doctrines we eftakarnaha fag2a in sex!
God this society is hopelessly sick wallahe, 2a3deen bass nedawar 3ala ay haga te7allelena elly nefsena feh we khalas. So pathetic!
I really hope they were just kidding, you know .. bro talks we khalas!
In religion, adultery is a lesser crime than hypocrisy aslan!
People being unsound and hypocritical is far more disastrous than committing adultery!
I'm sorry for the boring comment :D
Did I mention that I added you to my blogroll if it's ok,
Well, it's not called a "relationship" when the man owns the woman (or vice versa)...
wow, i wasnt expecting this variety of opinions... Interesting.
i am personally for naming the stuff in its real name. I hate Urfi and shit, so hypocratic. If u believe in something do it, and bare responsibilities, but mate3meleesh sheikh wenta shiekh mansar!
Ibhog : of course it is ok.
A very interesting topic, Mohaly. My answer will be in a form of a question: "Why they think about women only in such way?"
Wow, it is really interesting to know that there are men longing for 3asr el 7areem. Apparently they are longing for 3asr el 7areem el televisiony :) elly fih el ragel metgawez 4 we ma3ah 7awaly 100 gawary melk yameenoh. All beydala3oh, we beyr2osoloh as he happily eat fakhdet el kharoof.
1st Mohaly, melk el yameen lohom 7o2oo2. 7a2hom 3'ier 7a2 el zoga, but they have rights mesh disposable ya3ny. They have rights because they are humans bas they were owned. The same way men were owned bardo.
Islam organized slavery, didn't ban it but encouraged ending it. So, melk el yameen kan lohom 7o2oo2
2nd if someone calls for 3asr el 7areem, he should be able to afford being a man in such time. laken ma3 kamel e7teramy lel sada el regal e7na fi zaman el 2awaleb fih namet wel ensas 2amet.
yeshoofo el soora ab3ad mn fekret ansaf el 3araya el raqseen wel kharoof el mashwy we hayla2o en el akh sa7eb el 7areem kan beyseref 3ala 7areemoh, we 7amy 7aremoh, makansh fi 7omra betetbahdel. kan 2aneehom bel 3araby
wel wa7ed fihom delwa2ty may3rafsh ye2ny farkha.
yero7o yetgawezo el awal, we ba3dien ye2olo ya salam lw yerga3 3asr el 7areem. yero7o yete2o rabena fi kol 7aga bey3meloha el awal, then yeshofo hay3rafo yete2o rabena fi 3abedhom wala la2. dah tab3an 3ala e3tebar enena hanrga3 nebee3 we neshtery fi el bashar fi aswa2 we teb2a tegara legal. ya3ny el nahrda ana doctora fi el gam3a, we bokra yetla3 3alya wa7ed be mosadas we yakhodny yebe3ny fi aswa2 el nekhasa!
Ibhog, I agree :)
Shaimaa: akeed they had rights specially if they give birth to a baby, but it is not like marriage for sure.
My opinion is that with all "mo3'reyat el 3asr el 7adeeth", one woman is not enough, and marying more than one is practically insane, so they are longing to 3asr El 7areem
The thing that my dear friend Zaki Zahran mentioned is that men should be careful for what they wish for as they may have been the eunuchs (khesyan) of that age!!!
howa 3asr el 7areem da gheir 3asr el nesaa beta3 Kazim ;)
howa fee 7areem aktar men keda, dal 7anafeyat betnazel 7areem ya gama3a..
enta feen ya Titi!
Shimaa: thanks for your endorsement :)
Mohaly:
Well, if we give in to those temptations, we might as well lose it all ba2a, and it's not really practically insane, we (as a society bardo), made it that way for sorrow.
We managed to alienate religion in ways so preposterous that we all feel lost and confused now, so the practically insane is quite the description for people not the act itself.
And again, I don't really really ya3ny think that it's about marriage .. even polygamy for a breather to try and cope with those temptations .. it's just pure lust.
That's why we fe3lan should be careful when we're making wishes, it's all about expectations.
I totally agree with Ibhog......
malesh i really got confused while reading the extreme different opinions ...ireally do not get it who is really in favor of such idea that "one is not enough" plus even if the religion allows it zaman i would like to see someone who can admit that he can take care of a harem from all aspects for all the guys who say yes please donot kid yourself 2 or even 3 relationships is more than you can handle so lets not brag that you can take care of a harem
ana ya Merhan admit that I can take care up to 3 women at a time.
I have written that before on my small blog.. one woman is not enough.
Merhan: As you know I am always for 1 women is enough specially if you understand each other, if you dont then you can have other relationship but you gotta end the first relationship el 2wel. Ya3nie relations should be in series not in parallel.
Omar, 1st i agree with you that we are now living aswa2 men ayam 3asr el7areem ... at least wa2taha they were forced to be gawary, now they are not forced but some women are offering themselves & for free !!
& About taking care of 3 women at a time, i guess you are not married & that's why you are saying it out loud.
If you are married, then you are very brave aw mestabya3 :))
Why everyone is talking about a relationship & forgetting that every relation comes with its responsibilities!!
Even friendship between a man & a woman has responsibilities.
If you really can take care of 3 women at a time as you admit, can you handle responsibilities of three homes (with everything under this word)?!
Mohaly, i agree that relations should be in series & not parallel, although nowadays many people go for the 2nd one.
& it's not only "if you did not understand each other", you should try, try & try hard, if it didn't work then it's ok you end it & start another one (although doing so is not as easy as saying it).
ya Maha I said 3 WOMEN not 3 wives or 3 houses ;)
that's what i understood 1st & didn't believe that there is a guy who is admitting that :))
Could you let the three of them know that you are in a relation with the three of them? barring the consequences?
why not, as Mohaly says, it is always about common mission and values. If we have the same point of view and values then alas :)
as long as everyone gets what he/she wants and there are no hidden agendas, there is no problem.
Omar, begad do u believe that ???
Well, it's honesty to let them know, but i guess you are dreaming that any of them will accept, or otherwise they will tear you apart (do not ever underestimate what a woman can do, to take her man from another woman or even for revenge)
I would love to know what will be your situation if you had a relationship with 2 women not 3 ;)
Maha, i am talking about of experience, not just talk ;)
and you can ask about me ..
lol .. Ok ya Omar, kabasteny :))
will not argue with you anymore!!
So now you admit that 3asr elhareem still exist !!!
Omar i really admire ur honesty i would like to really know how u do it ?ent gamed bs talata kteer:)plus u didnot say why one is not enough,please elaborate.
Mohaly i totally agree that relationships that are in series and not in parallel have their pure chance of success and i totally believe you when you said that one is enough for you .
Maha it seems that you got confused they are talking about relationships from the start not the one based on love and respect but otherwise .
as long as everyone gets what he needs from a relationship i guess that no one will get hurt in the process zy ma omar said...
Maha, you should know from the begining that when it comes to women there are 2 bloggers in this blog you cant argue with: Omar, and Tamer.
check this out to answer why he thinks one woman is not enough
http://hawahawaia.blogspot.com/2009/02/one-woman-is-not-enough.html
malesh maha lessa gedida ... she really doesnot believe it
I really don't believe it as Merhan said.
howa fe3lan fee keda ???
well, u made me feel i am naiive !!
Mohaly, i read the post (one woman is not enough)& really it amazed me how a person is admitting this fact.
But at least ya Omar you are honest with yourself & with other people.
I was talking to a friend who has worked/lived in many African countries. She told me that it is natural for African men to have as many girlfriends as they please. And these women might or not know about each other. Eih ra2yak ya Omar? These girlfriends range from 2 to 8 at a time all! I was really speechless at the number.
As for the married guys, it is normal for them to have what they call a "Deuxième Bureau" or a second office/other place to go to other than the official wife.
Although the above is a generalization, I just thought of sharing this piece of info. with everyone!
Ya Mohaly, over time humans have supposedly evolved in all aspects. This means that we are able to control our basic instincts. If not, what makes us different from animals?
Hi guys:
3omar how're u?i'd like to tell you that ur opinion was the most honest opinion coz that's what really happening nowadays ONE WOMAN IS NOT ENOUGH wake up girls and admit it stop dreaming it's a fact look around you&you'll see that married or unmarried men are never satisfied with one woman and by the way ya mohaly it has nothing to do with understanding each other,and please don't try to say wrong coz if i start telling you just examples not all i have you'll be really surprised you 'll loose trust in everybody but really to all women loving their husbands plz take care..
Mohaly plz write a post saying (BITCHES WINS THESE DAYS) don't be so surprised my friends it's a fact
Anonymous this has nothing to do with Muslim or Christians it's all about tafaset el regalla and i think that it common in men no matter what their religion is.
Mary ... wade7 enek shayla gamed :)
I don't agree with you that all men are not satisfied with one woman
But also, it depends on the relationship itself and the woman, does she satisfy all his "NEEDS" or not? and i mean mental, sexual, emotion & other needs.
A woman should be a mom, girlfriend, lover, mistress, sister & daughter. the question now is "CAN YOU BE ALL THESE WOMEN?"
It's true that all men "WISH" to be in several relations to fulfill their needs, but not all men go far than "dreaming to be".
el kalam da kalam mofeed we mohem.
ya reet kan el wa7ed fel zamn da, kolo khair we tazbeet.
bravo ya mohaly 3al selection, ana ma3ak fel mawdoo3 da, and i'll support this idea in Hurghada :)
Maha 3agebini koy kalamek kal 3adaa
let them dream as they wish :))
you know guys, what is the thing i enjoyed the most in this post?
Maha & Omar!
when you go back and read their debate, you can't help it and you will laugh about Maha's shock and unbelieving comments and Omar's cool attitude, who can't understand where is the problem :))
Tab3an ya Tamer :))
Welcome back!
thanks ya mohaly :)
i've some questions are we talking about the numbers or quality? :)
number of 7areem in general, wala el 7areem el gamda?
performance for the man wala kam wa7da kol yoom?
my opinion it's matter of attraction fe wa7da tekhaleek betofrok we mesh 3ayez teroo7el sho'3l we fee 7areem keteer teb2a mesh 3ayez teseeb el sho'3l and i guess howa da el sabab beta3 having 3asr el 7areem :)
bass this is from the man prespective only, balash atkalem 3an el nos el tany 7efazan 3ala el zo2 el 3am :)
Maha ana fe3lan shaila gamed gedan,, but it's not the main reason behind my opinion..
let's be honest with ourselves every woman can be a mom, girlfriend, lover, mistress, sister & daughter,but beleive me ya maha as omar can take care of three women at the same time most men can bas enty lesa ma shofteish el donia 3ala 7a2e2etha it's not the same world we dreamed about.
3omar we Tamer 2etlamo ba2a ento eletnein we balash elmas7'arah elly ento feiha de we ba3dein fe 7aga mohema homa mesh 3arfenha en:
3omar's living in Dubai wa ma 2adrakom be7areem Dubai.&Tamer's living in Hurghada :D no comment..
Rabena yedikom el se7a ento fa7'er el sena3a el masreya...
Mohaly, u r totally right about not arguing with Omar & Tamer. I am even more shocked after reading Tamer's comment & questions.
Ya3ny khalas we are now talking about quantity & quality ?
Guys, u r talking about women, human beings mesh kam kilo tofa7 betna2o meno !!!
men who act like this maha ( dealing with women as kam kelo tofa7) deserve meeting women who treat them as ( kam kilo orange) and usually they do!
rawa2i........:)
Generalization doesn't work usually what u can control is only urself, ur life , and ur choices.....
Wish Tamer & Omar find what they wish for!
Mary & Maha: although you are right that Tamer and Omar have extreme view about women but what Tamer said is right some women can push you to work 24hrs in order not to go back home, others can push you to finish what you have to go back to her ..etc.
ANONYMOUS: you started getting on my nerves by not writing your name. I already added a note above requesting non registered users to write their names.
I really don't wanna close the blog comments on registered users, but on the other hand non-registered ones have to respect us and write ANY name we can refer to, and distinguish them.
ya Maha enti shaklek keda metgaweza geded we mabsouta ma3 goozek we khayfa 3aleeh :) etameni, although your husband may have same needs like other men but since he chose to marry someone like you (with brians ya3ni), he will think 1000 times before "playing with his tail ;)" provided that you don't squeeeze him; wala eihhhhh ;)
7abibi ya Titi ya fahemni we metameni :)
ya Mary: malhom 7areem Dubai wel gharda2a! da 7ekd dah wala eih.
ya Mohaly: We are all proud of you on the prof. & personal sides, but matfokak men el e7tram wel prestige eli enta feeh, we seeb nafask lel ghareeza el lazeeza, badal manta lonely 3alatoul keda :)
She said to him.. . Why is it difficult to find men who are sensitive, caring and Good- looking?
He said .. . They already have boyfriends.
He said...What do you call a woman who knows where her husband is every night?
She said. . A widow.
check the rest on my new post
http://hawahawaia.blogspot.com/2009/07/he-said-she-said.html#comments
Omar, yes I am married & not from a long time & thank god we respect & love each other, I am not worried about my personal relation but what really amazed me in this post is the different thoughts of people, specially when they believe what they say.
Honestly, i respect yours & Tamer’s opinion - although i disagree with both of you, but as they say “it’s a free country” & everyone is free to act/think the way he/she likes.
It's really interesting to know other opinions, but as a female, it hurts me to see people deal with women as “merchandise”.
Let me ask a question & I really want Omar & Tamer to answer it, since a relation with any woman is based on “common values” and no hidden agendas,
Does any of you accept that the girl he know to be in another relation at the same time? And if the answer is NO I would like to know WHY… but if the answer is YES .. then khalas don’t wanna know :))
Mohaly, I agree that the success of any relation (friendship, love, marriage, or whatever) depends on the woman by almost 70% but what about the other 30%, what about the women needs? do you try to think what she needs? or you just say the typical sentence (heya 3awza eh aktar men keda?)
As i hate to see men dealing with women as "goods" i hate to see women dealing with men as "shwal feloos or Human ATM" !!
w ba3deen men elakher ... kama todeen todan :))
OOOpppppss, the last comment was mine :))
Maha, it takes 2 to tango..
since it is a relationship then no one can make it work alone no matter how much he/she has the bigger responsibility.
This is not only in the male-female relationship but in any relationship. Imagine if I am interested in helping my students but they don't wanna study or attend my class, all of us won't succeed in passing the knowledge.
getting married means that 2 people agreed to share responsibilities and be accountable for their decisions and actions, and yes 70% is on the woman coz believe it or not she is the one who can contain the man much more than he can contain her!
Maha, relax dear.
its up to both partners to start a relationship based on what both agree upon. treating her as a kilo tofa7 would probably end up being treated as a kilo orange. its mutual agreement, dear.
i agree with Mohaly's opinion, its true the major role in a stable marriage and home is on the female shoulder. this is a pure female task. not saying that she is completely responsible for the relationship, but its her role to keep up the home comfy and warm for the family. nothing bad if you think about it. just split of tasks- based of nature of each partner. man is to work outside, woman to maintain inside.
sharing the responsibility from 2 different perspective.
back to the original post.
for those who wish to have lived in 3asr el 7areem- its still there. why are you complaining???? i think the concept is still there for those who agree to it, and 21st century part is there for those who want it bardo. We can say we have the privilege to choose between the 2 ages, while back then they had only one choice. : ))))))))))))))))))
Hi Mohaly.....i used to write under anonymous ,but from now ...u may call me sherry :)makansh asdi aday2ak :) I have found this blog by mere coincidence and I didn't mean to intrude....Im not highly tech person, will check how to be a registered user if u don't mind.....
U raise very interesting topics....
sherry please if you find out, share the info. i dont know it too.
thx
H.A.W, I agree with you completely, & that's also my opinion but was written on different comments within this post :))
but what i really can't understand, how a person can be involved in many relations at a time, i guess nothing of them would be a serious one or could it be?!!
Ma3lesh ya gama3a, excuse my ignorance !!
The last post also was mine !!!
Mohaly, why each comment i have to write a name ??? I thought it would be written automatically since i am a registered user, wala eih ??!!
hi anonymous
for sure none of the in-parallel-relations would be serious. from neither parties.
but again, its a mutual agreement.here you cant blame the man. or let me say, blame aslan.
whatever it is, what shape or time or type it takes, both agreed- khalas.
for those who need a serious relation, that's a completely different aspect and rules. but again, mutual agreement bardo :))))))
Omar & Tamer ..... I am still waiting for your answer :))
thanks ya gama3a for understanding :D
but i also want to add one important rule fe 3asr el 7areem "Sex with Respect" yet nasty and naughty but with respect :)
that's actually helping alot to remove any confusion if applicable :)
we 7elw awi el comment fakhr el sena3a el masraya :)
Omar: wala zaman :) ya basha ana ma3ak kalban wa kaleban
ya Maha here u go my answer:
3asr el 7areem fe almost 2 types
A- committed (wife, local)
B- seeking satisfaction (gawari, men belad bara)
that's what we are looking for
mesh keda ya Omar
Tamer, either you missed the point in my question or you are going around it !!!
Here is my question again:
Do you accept your girl to be in another relation with another man at the same time? NO (WHY) / YES (reason is optional)
Tamer, how would you define commitment ?
You said "Committed (wife), seeking Satisfaction (gawary)"
I can accept that someone doesn't believe in commitment, but to be committed to someone & seeking satisfaction with another one that's really a HUGE thing.
If you really believe in that, then, excuse me - you have an issue !!
If you are not satisfied with the one you already committed to, then WHY the acommittment ???!!
Am i the strange person here or what ?????!!!
Sherry: Welcome to the blog members :)
maha: You are a member, but not a registered user, you need to establish a profile with username and password, and then your name should appear automatically like me, tamer, omar, ..etc.
ya Maha
bera7a 3ala nafsek :)
The answer to your question is: I dont have to wait to accept or not, women by nature are seeking one man and their psychology is balanced when they are with one caring loving supporting man. Women who like to be with more than one man are already categorized by even other women as "lamo2akhza".
how to establish a profile? is it different than the profile here realted to google?
Maha, there is no need to throw all blame of an"in-parallel-relations" on the shoulder of the man only. if she knows and accepts, their business.
and a man can accept it as well. its not serious anyway. playfull is just playfull for both parties.:)))))
You know what's the problem Omar?
to be honest with you, men are not to be blamed if they found women who accept to be gawary !!!
Lelasaf, these days femals are making themselves cheap & soooooooo easy to get & i wonder why is that !!
May be for me it's hard to understand the abnormal relations, but it's a fact that all men dream to be in 3asr el 7areem, some of them apply it to their lives, some talk only & others only dream :))
H.A.W .... as if you were reading my comment while typing it :))
exactly, ya maha. if they accept, their business :))))))))))))))
as sad as it is - u dont need to accept, just acknowledge. and kaman be happy that you have the freedom to choose which way you want to follow.
Maha, yup :)))))
maybe i went a step further, acknowledge the fact and am happy i can be different :))))))))))))))
el 3akd share3t al mota3akedeen :)
that's my answer, again committed can't be engaged with any other relation, clear that's why she is comitted :D
gawari, 3ala ra2y el masal
otbokhy ya garya kalef ya seedy, we 3ala ad le7afak med regleek
did i answer ur question ya maha?
tamer, very interesting answer.
first part is true. i agree wiht you here.
second part, somehow surprised, bas mesh awy. :)))))))))
H.A.W
yes you have a profile.
I still can't realize the huge reaction of this post, it was just a quick fact that I said in a discussion the day before, and it turns out to be one of the most controversial posts in the blog!
Maha: we are 6.5 billion man and woman on earth, many models other than the faithful mono-relation exists. This is a fact that you can't change even if disagree with. I respect in Omar and Tamer their straight forward thinking and honesty, and with all the differences they are two of my close friends because of this.
For all the members who joined in 2009, check this post, I consider it as an intro to "3asr el 7areem" post.
http://mohaly.blogspot.com/2007/11/315-wives-and-bitches.html
Thank you Omar.....this is very interesting indeeed....
To Mohaly about that post:
I think that women tend to act in boring way with men while they constantly need to be challenged....Again im against generalization, but I guess in general it is applicable to both women and men....too much giving is boring....knowing eveything is boring especially in our days.....don't get me wrong, im with being faithful but i think both sides should keep things interesting....like a tango !
As for "bitchy attitude".....i have to wonder have u read sherry's book?
This is the comment #81 in this post so just telling I was sure this will get a big debate in comments :)
ya sherry, yes is did, and of course mafeesh 7alawa men gheir nar :))
ya hicham, as far as i remember this is the 2nd biggest post in comments in the blog, the last one mohaly disabled comments when it surpassed 100!
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