-------- "This is the time for action not only words, use your God given gifts to develop this country, dont be afraid to speak up, and feel PROUD THAT U R EGYPTIAN." -------- Mohaly, Feb 2011

Friday, July 17, 2009

580) Will Egypt turn into a Theocratic Country?!

I am against the concept of "Theocratic Country" where people are ruled in the name of God and all the power is centralized in one hand who has divine guidance. I know that the power still in one hand even in an Autocratic regime like ours, but theocratic is even worse as we don't have even the privilege of arguing!

That is why I don't like the Ekhwan Moslmeen movement. What I hate about it is the political agenda they have under the name of Allah. I consider this hypocricy, they want power like everyone else but they want in a way that doesnt keep a space for anyone else.

Prophet Muhammad PBUH, has said that we know more about running our everyday operations because it is something that is subject to change all the time and there is no one size fits all. So, dealing with everyday challenges is a pure civil activity as long as we didn't surpass the general divine limits. Why do we need then someone to rule in the name of God!

The question that I don't know an accurate answer for though is why El Ekhwan still exists although they have been banned for more than 60 years! Sometimes because the ruler uses them like what Sadat did with Omar El Telmisani, sometimes because they play on the basic needs of the people (food, shelter..etc), but still I can't find an overall answer, and please don't tell me because "El Eslam howa el 7al" as it is too general to fit an agenda or a strategy.

I am just afraid that with all the current disappointemts in the Egyptian society, and as they say "fe ghafla men al zaman" we end up as a Theocratic country, will we? Hopefully not.



numberone said...

i hope this will never happen
it is scary to even think about it
look at Iran, Afghanistan
no way

amina said...

they existed because it is part of the political game since the start of the republic. politics is much more dirty than we think.

john said...

what about copts?

Maha Aly said...

Even in our autocratic regime we don't have the privilage of arguing, may be we do argue with each other, talk about politics with each other but nothing more. About the existance of " Elgama3a elma7zora", it's part of the government strategy, something purely politics.
7ezb watny aw ekhwan, both have hidden agendas.

I don't like to talk when it comes to politics, as we all know that there is no democracy & it won't make any difference ... men elakher mafeesh fayda men elkalam !!
"Shalo Aldo gabo Shaheen ... mesh far2a kteer".

merhan said...

i am an ignorant person when it comes to politics yet do you think that the way things are going now there is a chance for an islamic government? definitely not ..... plus we have not tried it before so we won't be able to judge it. in our county we have no say about the ruling of this country so why bother who gets it 7ezab watani or another ?can anyone in this site tell me if he ever went to vote ??? and donot tell me that i donot care for the fate of my country bec i know that i cannot make a difference although i am a really optimistic person and really believe in the change

Maha Aly said...

Merhan, in a democratic country we sure can make a difference, but in our country, with a government like ours ... I don't think so !!
& Yes, i went to vote before, because i believe that it's important, although i knew it wouldn't make any difference.

Omar Rostom said...

ya Mohaly, i support your first option: The government uses them as bo3bo3.

ya Maha, not because you are not heard that you stop talking, the problem isnt in you, that is exactly what they want.

ya Mohaly makona 3amleen gemagh ma3 3asr el 7areem ;)

Omar Rostom said...

حضارة سبع آلاف من السنين

سؤال بيسأله كل المصريين

ليه أحنا متأخرين

وكلنا للأسباب عارفين

بس مستهبلين

ووقتنا كله مضيعين

وإحنا علي الكافيهات قاعدين

وللشيشة والمعسل شاربين

والبنات والولاد لبعض معلقين

والرجالة والستات جوازات عرفي ضاربين

وعندنا مدارس وجامعات كتير بس مش متعلمين



وجوامع وكنائس كتير بس مافيش دين

ونطلع من الصلاة نتخانق ونسب لبعض الدين

وعندنا ناس بتسال ندخل الحمام بالرجل الشمال ولا اليمين

ورجالة وستات بيحلفوا أنهم للجن متجوزين



وعندنا نيل طويل بس عطشانين

وأرض خضراء مزرعة بس جعانين

والخضار والفاكهة الحمد لله متسرطنين

وفي أنفلونزا الطيور طلعنا علي العالم التالتين

ودفنا الخنازير حية والأنفلونزا مش لاقيين

حتي السمك مسمم جبناه من الفلبين

وبقينا خلاص نباتيين

ومش لاقيين

والريس بتاعنا عدي الثمانين

وحايركب ابنه عالبلد ويدلدل الرجلين

وعندنا رئيس وزراء طوله مترين

وإحنا ساكتين

وعلي بعض بس متفالحين

وعلي الغلبان بس نعمل جامدين

ولو عسكري المرور كلمنا ننزل نديله قلمين

لكن لو ضابط نقول له آمين

وندفع المخالفة حتي لو مش غلطانين

ونضحك في وش بعض وأول مانمشي نروح شاتمين

وكلنا نقول لبعض أنت عارف بتكلم مين

ورجالتنا مش عارفين وفي العسل نايمين

والستات تعبانين

البلد بيتكلموا في الموبايل وهما شحاتين

و سيبك أنت احنا ناس طيبين

وربنا ساترها وماشيه بدعاء الوالدين

وصدقني حانفضل كده علي طول وليوم الدين

Mohaly said...

it seems that most people are into option 1 (the country uses them) which makes sense.

john, i didnt get what do you mean by what about the copts?!

omar, gamda el poem, meen eli ma2alefha?

Maha Aly said...

Omar, I am optimistic & i believe in the change, but people talk, argue, discuss political issue & even some of them suggest solutions! But let's be practical ... Does any of that solve the "real problem" ?, I guess anyone who is trying to change, make a difference or even develop the awarness of the people beyakhod 3ala afah ... Take Amr Khaled as an example !

God Anobis said...

Well personally I think religion is just a load of crap. But that aside, there is nothing wrong with having an Islamic regime, as long as the tenets of democracy are followed (which is not necessarily in contradiction with Islam, I think).
As far as I understand there is NOT supposed to be a final authority in Islam. Questions are supposed to be open to debate and ijithad; and that is open for all, not only a ruling priesthood as is practised now in all countries, where our priests (sheikhs) have the first and final word, with not much debate or evidence as to what principle they fall back on. I think the danger is that these priests have demonstrated how "ignorant" they are, and how they are stuck in the past and unwilling to evolve wit the times. Laws change with time, and evolve according to changes in society, as long as they keep the spirit of justice intact. Going back to a reference (constitution) is not a bad thing, but common sense should be used instead of relying on blind dogma, and that reference should be something we all agree upon and not forced on us (back to the Copt question asked above).
Well that's my rant for the day!!

Gypo said...

Ezayyoko ya awlad we ya banat. I return this time with one of my long replies but Mohaly is really provoking me.
Let's get to the point now...

1) The reason why the brotherhood still exists may be one of two reasons. The first is as everyone said, they are a part of the political game. The other reason I can think of, is what I actually see when dealing with common people I meet, they claim that the religious speech and the sheikhs and mosque imams are all government owned (which seems to be true in many unfavourable previous situations), common people truely believe it deep in their hearts, the brotherhood claims that they fear no one but allah and common people can see all the arrests and harrassments the brotherhood members face, this way the brotherhood is gaining much support and syumpathy from common people who know nothing about politics and cannot read deep into their minds and see their goals clearly.

2) Life in Egypt is really approaching the limits of all human tolerances, pressure is building up and the country is on the verge of a dramatic change, be it an islamic revolution or be it a red revolution, the change is going to be disasterous and sinister.

3) Look at the level of education and awareness the common Egyptians enjoy. It's really scary to try and have a civilized conversation with anyone and you notice that most of the educated people know nothing about science, economy, technology, or even their field of study in university, read the "Al masry al youm" website and see for yourself how superficial people are (a large number of the people cannot even write proper arabic or present their ideas in a way that can be understood), after that please go and visit any of the numerous fatwa websites and read the questions being asked, I spend hours reading these questions, amazed that people will actually ask questions of the sort.
They request for fatwas for literally everything you face in the day to day life. I was scared to read questions that showed a severe ignorance and I chose a few to share.
a) Someone was asking if he can own an AEROPLANE in heaven, and if the answer was going to be yes, he wanted to know if he'd own his own airport.
b) Another one had a same sex relation with another man when they were younger and their relation continued over the years and know he wants to "yatoub" and marry the other mans sister, he's asking if it was "7alal".
c) A third was asking if it was "7alal" to use paper money, and if "Tawba" was acceptable if using money was 7aram.
These examples and many more will show you the deterioration in our educational system which promotes recieving without any interaction or thinking in anyway.
Somehow people have been brainwashed and ready for orders.

4) I cannot live in a theocratic country, not neccessarily islamic. I cannot give in to someone who claims to deliver the word of allah and they being the guardians of allah's words and allah's enforcers on earth. At this stage you disagree with them and you'll disagree with allah's orders, then you wont really face them, but you'll have to face the wrath of all their followers (the ones mentioned in item 3). I cannot accept being ruled by someone like this as god never told us how to deal with day to day life and "e3mal el 3aql" is promoted in both religions that I know with confidence, Islam and christianity. So no one can tell what to do and what not to do and claim that these are god's orders.

5) Last but not the least, this one is for John.
Nothing is going to change, you'll not be treated any differently. If they call you now an infidel "Kafer", they call open minded muslims "mortaddeen", if they kill you for being a kafer, they also killed Farag Foda and tried to kill Naguib Mahfouz for the same reasons. And if under an Islamic state you get kicked out of the country, you'll leave along side many other muslims who'll be accused of despising Islam and allah just because they think.

sorry for the long reply.

Anonymous said...

Well, that's interesting.

About where I think Egypt is heading to, it's to a Capitalist Republic, and with privatization and division of shares, it's quite obvious.

However, the above will be something like an ulterior motive, or a hidden agenda, they can never declare that as political objective, instead, it'll be imposed (especially on the middle-class), as an inevitable consequence (which is not only disrespectful to our minds, but also thoroughly naive!).

And then I switch in my endless proses about the matter, to hereditary, because surprise! that's not even autocracy! In fact it is actually closer to theocracy itself, in practice.

So no, in laymen terms, lemme rest you assured, that if we really changed in terms of our ideologies, it'll be to the direct worse, poverty rates will explode (they already sorta are btw), and even .. and I put that on repeat .. even if we decide for an Islamic theocracy to assume ruling, it won't be any less disastrous. (It wouldn't have to be a 1000 years ago!)

We always forget to ask this: "Are we ready for change?"

And it's funny you know, because if we level with each other keda, we shall find that this is a deep rooted problem in our ways of thinking as Egyptian people, we .. mmm .. I don't know how to put this .. err when it comes to organized way of thinking. We miss what 'prioritize' means.

And that's why we suck at all levels, all industries, all kinds of education, sport, management, economy .. koll haga!!

How on earth are we going to come up with a something-cracy! to solve our problems, or to achieve a so called change?

All I'm saying is that we should think 'symptoms' not 'problems', and that's my friend is the answer to your question about keeping a movement like el-Ekhwan on the combat, they say we will solve problems, and our government with its infinite dexterity, actually knows that trying to hold water with your hands .. is just impossible, (I hope you get my simile), that's why they give them space, so we think it's freaking democracy.

Poor we (again).

I wrote an article in my blog, I stated my eminent opposition to any change, read it and tell me what ye think.

And after your permission Mohaly, I would like to comment on 'God Anobis' with just one sentence:

"If you think religion is crap, then why, in your view, was there something called theocracy 'that worked' in the first place?"

Maha Aly said...

Here is a poem for Ahmed Fouad Negm ...
Supposed to be from the government to the people ...

شعر أحمد فؤاد نجم

ياشعبي حبيبي ياروحي يابيبي ياحاطك في جيبي يابن الحلال

ياشعبي ياشاطر ياجابر خواطر ياساكن مقابر وصابر وعال

ياواكل سمومك يابايع هدومك ياحامل همومك وشايل جبال

ياشعبي اللي نايم وسارح وهايم وفي الفقر عايم وحاله ده حال

احبك محشش مفرفش مطنش ودايخ مدروخ واخر انسطال

احبك مكبردماغك مخدر ممشي امورك كده باتكال

واحب اللي ينصب واحب اللي يكدب واحب اللي ينهب ويسرق تلال

واحب اللي شايف وعارف وخايف وبالع لسانه وكاتم ماقال

واحب اللي قافل عيونه المغفل واحب البهايم واحب البغال

واحب اللي راضي واحب اللي فاضي واحب اللي عايز يربي العيال

واحب اللي يائس واحب اللي بائس واحب اللي محبط وشايف محال

واحبك تسافر وتبعد تهاجر وتبعت فلوسك دولار او ريال

واحبك تطبل تهلل تهبل عشان مطش كوره وفيلم ومقال

واحبك تأيد تعضض تمجد توافق تنافق وتلحس نعال

تحضر نشادر تجمع كوادر تلمع تقمع تظبط مجال

لكن لو تفكر تخطط تقرر تشغل مخك وتفتح جدال

وتبدأ تشاكل وتعمل مشاكل وتنكش مسائل وتسأل سؤال

وعايز تنور وعايز تطور وتعملي روحك مفرد رجال

ساعتها حجيبك لايمكن اسيبك وراح تبقى عبره وتصبح مثال

حبهدل جنابك وأذل اللي جابك وحيكون عذابك ده فوق الاحتمال

وامرمط سعادتك واهزأ سيادتك واخلي كرامتك في حالة هزال

وتلبس قضيه وتصبح رزيه وباقي حياتك تعيش في انعزال

حتقبل ححبك حترفض حلبك حتطلع حتنزل حجيبلك جمااااال

Mohaly said...

wow, three intellectual comments on one day!

1st welcome my very dear friend Z.Z. to the blog, I hope I can see your valuable comments more often.
and yes Islam is about direct relation with God and requires no human authority between any person and God. However, througout the last 13 centuries, the power of rulers has increased supported by the word "khalifa" that led to autocratic regimes under the name of religion. The rest of the story is known till we reached the 20th century and ruling in the name of Islam became an ideology.
I think that the government should be secular and shouldn't involve religion in detailed aspects but keep within the general boundaries.

Mohaly said...

Gypo: I am glad I finally provoked you to write, wala zaman, ya rab dayman....
welcome back my twin-mind ..
wow, enta teskot teskot and then shoot a whole page :)

I really can't add a word, I totally agree with what you said, and amazed of how shallow the fatwas are! may be this needs another post on its own.

Mohaly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mohaly said...

ok it seems this is the post of the longest comments :)

Ibhog: What I got - and correct me if wrong - that the only "system" that works in Egypt is chaos!

P.S. you have all the right to disagree with God Anobis, he is a dear old friend of mine, but he is free to express his point of view about religious belief even if it contradicts mine or yours.

All: This is a free blog regardless of your age, color, gender, religion or sexual orientation. The only thing that is required for writing here is having a brain :)

H.A.W. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
H.A.W. said...

i agree with the opinion that the regime uses them for its own benefit, they will exist as long as its needed. but they will never come to regime, no matters how many votes they get, especially that voting isnt really as clean as it shoudl be. its just a game.

besides,they are too shallow to hold on for long, if they rule.their pretendence of following Islam is fake.its all about ruling.

to john:
dont think that if they come to rule the country, copts will be the only ones who will be driven away or even exiled.
many muslims will be as well, because they simply will not agree to what they want. i'd be one of them, so dont worry :))))

we are heading towards a revolution in the most aggressive way i could imagine.it will not be as the previous one, but heavily aggressive and destructive.ppl have reached the desperate limits of "nothing more to loose". rabena yostor.

Maha, everything seems to be so hopeless and dark, but in my opinion, we shouldnt give up.if you dont have the power for major changes, work on simple changes. silently and with patience, they will change.and dont think it doesnt count. it does, if u add things.start with simple ppl arround u.like ur bawab or anyone arround.if u explain to his children the benefit of learning, school and being honest, that counts.give a homeless child some food, help out where needed.u might not see immediate change or benefit, but it all add up.
believe me it counts, u just wont realize because there is still so much to do :))))

Maha Aly said...

H.A.W ... I know everything counts & i always believe that "little things do matter" and we - as simple normal people - are trying to do our best, i have lots of friends doing charity work for improving the awareness of poor people and supporting them & i have been involved with them several times, but most of those people really don't care about education or what's really going around them... u know what's the answer we always get when we talk about the importance of education? " my children will get educated & then will stay jobless or get a job with 200 pounds / month max.? why the hell?, they can get a job from now & feed themselves" and the education they are talking about is just "reading, writting & following what's going on!!"
Beside ...... we are lazy people, as some took it for granted that other people are supporting them, so why do they work or try doing anything?!!
I am still optimistic & i hope to see my country getting better, i love my country & i love living in it but i am afraid that at a time i'll loose my hope & say "mafeesh fayda" !!

H.A.W. said...

when they tell you why should i care, simply reply because there is no way else to survive.when they tell the 200 EGP are not enough tell them its a start, we should work and Allah helps, when they keep lazy, simply stop the help and tell them time to work.
have been through this phase too. :))))
but still go on trying. no oter option for us for them. we have to work on it. success comes from Allah, but at least we have tried.

Tamer Mokhtar said...

yooh politics tany :)
khalona nerakez fe subject wa7ed :)
zaman el gawari, khaly el sha3b ye3eesh.

Mary jacoub said...

ya 3am Mohaly heya el3amaleya na2sa 3'am politics eih we kalam fady da3 el 7'alk ll7'alek we shof lena post mas7'ara keda yetary 3ala 2albena..
As Maha said:Mafeish faida

laila said...

rabina yehdik ya tamer enta we omar
ya rab

Mohaly said...

Omar & Tamer: This is a miscallenous blog that tackles human / community issues, sometimes it is serious, sometime fun, sometimes mental, other times spirtutial, emotional, or phyiscal ..etc. so some politics is needed everynow and then.. mesh hayenfa3 nefdal 3ala toul fe 3asr el 7areem :)
and next post I promise it won't be politics ya sidi :)

Mohaly said...

ameen ya laila..
p.s. beautiful name :)

ekhwan said...

Mohly,God Anobs,Maha,Gyp,Omar, and all of you donnot understand Ekhawan is best
"إن مكاتب الإخوان تنتشر اليوم في أكثر من 60 دولة حول العالم، في الدول العربية، وأوروبا، وأميركا، والجماعة موجودة على الأرض وليست سرابا، رغم أنهم يطلقون عليها في الإعلام (المحظورة)، وبعض هذه المكاتب في الخارج يعلق لافتة تقول (المقر العام للإخوان المسلمين)، ولا حرج أو شبهة خوف في ذلك، وأغلب رؤساء النقابات في بعض الدول من (الإخوان). وينتشر في جنوب أفريقيا، حيث عشت هناك، أعضاء (الإخوان)، وهم بخير في كل مكان».

Mohaly said...

sorry "ekhwan" this doesnt mean that they are the best !!

champ78 said...

عملية الديمقراطية فى مصر ناقصة الاطراف 0 هناك الحزب الوطنى كطرف حاكم ويغيب امامه عن الساحة المعارضة الحقيقية كطرف معارض ولايوجد الا الاخوان هم الذين يقومون بالمعارضة الحقيقية ولكن هذا لايعجب الحزب الحاكم الذى يريد ان يفرض نفسه كحزب اوحد حاكم فى وجود تمثيل هزلى لاحزاب المعارضة التى تفتقد لاى دور قوى على الساحة السياسية وبذلك نحن نعيش ديمقراطية اسمية فقط دون فعل 0 والديموقراطية لا تتمثل فقط فى بعض حرية التعبير من المنظمات الحقوقية على الساحة ولكن بوجود حزب معارض قوى او احزاب عدة لها برامج سياسية للاصلاح وتستطيع من خلال ممارساتها ان تؤثر على البرنامج السياسى للحزب الحاكم وتستطيع ان يكون لها كلمة فى تشكيل الحكومة او عزل بعض الوزراء كما يحدث فى البلاد المتقدمة ديمقراطيا 0 الحزب الحاكم لم يعطى اى فرصة لمعارضة حقيقية فى البلاد وهو حتما ماسيؤدى الى عواقب وخيمة فى المستقبل القريب 0 حفظ الله مصرنا من كل شر

Maha Aly said...

Please let's not talk about the democracy!!! as "DEMOCRACY" is a form of government in which the right to govern is vested in the citizens of a country or a state and exercised through a majority rule ..... do you think it applies here ?!!
Here in Egypt, In order to apply what's called "Democracy" ... government allows people & media to talk (under supervision) w elkalam ely maye3gebsh beywady sa7bo fe dahya .... what a democracy :PP "free country w 7arakat"
P.S: da mesh tasha2om, but i love to live in reality & not in the lala land!!

H.A.W. said...

or ya maha, you can talk as free and as much as you wish- dear- but none moves or does anything.
democracy bardo :))))))
ekhwan or not, islamic or republic or whatever, hope someday we would have a country where human beings can live.
mesh 3arfa ezay, or when, but i am positive that the change will come. and dont think its far away.
bas rabena yostor

Hicham said...

Is there another place for one more comment? Just one more comment (you know that song "just one more time") :)

Well, Mohaly, no one has the authority to rule in the name of Allah but what I am really affraid of is the "bigotry", "dogmatism" and "fanatcism" which is found among some Egyptians.

p.s. I added your blog to my list under "Limelight > Egyptians".