Here we are ... I am starting and have no idea when this series will end, coz till now I have had the plot of 12 episodes in mind, and still more questions coming !! But as I said, I do take it seriously and I hope I can contribute in clearing part of the misunderstanding, but not all of it, coz I think part of the beauty of our relations is these differences and misunderstandings ;)
Friendship .. Why & When?
I will start with the most nagging question, actually the one I have -and still facing- its hell. Is there real friendship between men and women... can men and women just be friends without any hidden agendas? can this friendship last or is it a stage in life....?!!
Actually although the above questions are simple and straight to the point, the answer is VERY complicated...and subjective as well.
Let's start from the beginning of any 2 people knowing each other, what makes them friends?
hmmm. Usually -in my opinion supported by experts opinions- men have this inner classification system where consciously or unconsciously then classify women into:
1) Potential Lover (love, girlfriend, wife...etc)
2) Wanna Sleep with (sex friend, slut,...etc)
3) Secrets Keeper and Eye Opener (real friend, mutual benefit, his guide in other sex's world)
4) Red Lighter (don’t even think, trouble becomes her!)
5) and good to know, without real knowledge of how to be classified now (postponed)
So it all depends on how she is classified from the beginning.
1) Potential Lover: Friendship is a stage to get closer, it either leads to more intimate relation or getting her out of his life. It is very hard to continue as friends here as he will always give you signs of wanting more than being your friend, and it is hard to take it back.
2) Wanna Sleep with :) when I was studying in Los Angeles in the 90s, they used call it "Friends with Benefits" so it is friends afterall .. heheh. I don't think I need to elaborate here, signs are usually blunt from both sides, wala eih ;)
3) Secrets Keeper and Eye Opener: This is the real friendship.. Usually the girl here doesn’t fit the criteria of 1 & 2, and has good mind too, so there is real interest of pure friendship.. however, if this friendship turned out to be love someday, it becomes a very good one coz -in my opinion- love based on friendship is much more durable than love based on feelings only. So signs here are genunie and cant be confused, even if it turned out to be something more, you will be in a stage that you do understand each other without even talking.
4) Red Lighter: He is afraid of getting near hear for one reason or another, so all the signs here will be signs of rejection or over respect, he will be sure not to give any mixed signs. Howa mesh 2adik ;)
5) The good to know has a big share of the mixed feelings, and actually this is the category where the guy himself is confused and can't afford but to give mixed signs, ... it may drive the girl nuts begad!
So what I wanna say is, in order to understand the bigger picture and be able to deal with the signs, you need to figure out how does he think/categorize.. but since this topic is really wide, I will dedicate the next episode for it as well (how to deal the mixed signals), but let's stop here and have some discussion about these stages before going into the 2nd part of "Friendship".
Mohaly
Friendship .. Why & When?
I will start with the most nagging question, actually the one I have -and still facing- its hell. Is there real friendship between men and women... can men and women just be friends without any hidden agendas? can this friendship last or is it a stage in life....?!!
Actually although the above questions are simple and straight to the point, the answer is VERY complicated...and subjective as well.
Let's start from the beginning of any 2 people knowing each other, what makes them friends?
hmmm. Usually -in my opinion supported by experts opinions- men have this inner classification system where consciously or unconsciously then classify women into:
1) Potential Lover (love, girlfriend, wife...etc)
2) Wanna Sleep with (sex friend, slut,...etc)
3) Secrets Keeper and Eye Opener (real friend, mutual benefit, his guide in other sex's world)
4) Red Lighter (don’t even think, trouble becomes her!)
5) and good to know, without real knowledge of how to be classified now (postponed)
So it all depends on how she is classified from the beginning.
1) Potential Lover: Friendship is a stage to get closer, it either leads to more intimate relation or getting her out of his life. It is very hard to continue as friends here as he will always give you signs of wanting more than being your friend, and it is hard to take it back.
2) Wanna Sleep with :) when I was studying in Los Angeles in the 90s, they used call it "Friends with Benefits" so it is friends afterall .. heheh. I don't think I need to elaborate here, signs are usually blunt from both sides, wala eih ;)
3) Secrets Keeper and Eye Opener: This is the real friendship.. Usually the girl here doesn’t fit the criteria of 1 & 2, and has good mind too, so there is real interest of pure friendship.. however, if this friendship turned out to be love someday, it becomes a very good one coz -in my opinion- love based on friendship is much more durable than love based on feelings only. So signs here are genunie and cant be confused, even if it turned out to be something more, you will be in a stage that you do understand each other without even talking.
4) Red Lighter: He is afraid of getting near hear for one reason or another, so all the signs here will be signs of rejection or over respect, he will be sure not to give any mixed signs. Howa mesh 2adik ;)
5) The good to know has a big share of the mixed feelings, and actually this is the category where the guy himself is confused and can't afford but to give mixed signs, ... it may drive the girl nuts begad!
So what I wanna say is, in order to understand the bigger picture and be able to deal with the signs, you need to figure out how does he think/categorize.. but since this topic is really wide, I will dedicate the next episode for it as well (how to deal the mixed signals), but let's stop here and have some discussion about these stages before going into the 2nd part of "Friendship".
Mohaly
Hi Mohaly…
ReplyDeleteI like your classification, you covered everything:)
I do believe in friendship between men and women, actually for the most of my life, I only had boy friends, either from school, club, family, neighbors or college. But I have to admit that yrs later I found out the woman-woman friendship is more solid and more durable.
In most cases –am sure not in all cases- when a man-woman be close friends for long time, by time there relationship develop to love, and as it’s not always from both side fa finally and also by time their friendship fades away.
Also I believe that man-woman friendship has certain time to start within, I mean that in my age (and am 31yrs), it’s difficult to develop a close friendship with a man, for many reasons, I am mature enough not to talk about everything with a man, and if I am not that open so we are not that close, another reason that men in similar age are mostly married, and obviously none of them will tell his wife that Engy is my new best friend!:)..it could happen between old friends, to get married or engaged and am already in his life, thought it’s always difficult and always the spouse don’t approve it..but it’s OK and sometimes it works, but not if they are new friends.
I still have close men friends since long years and we are so close up till now, but I also lost many, either because one of us developed a feeling toward the other or he got married and it became difficult to stay close as we used to be, we couldn’t talk and meet as we used to be and finally our friendship faded till it ended or we just could maintain a phone call every few months.
I also have new men friends, but we are either good colleagues, or good friends, but never close friends.
Go on with your series, I needed to understand men thinking since long time..so harry up, u r already 10 yrs late:D
I second Engy, I love the classification.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can't wait for how to interpret the mixed signals.
Seriously!! they do that?
ReplyDeleteI like how you categorized them, l lamba nawret :D
I had male friends from college days, we've been friends for 6~5 years now, but lately they seem to start falling one by one for couple of my girl friends (inside the group). I dont see how they categorized us back in college days though.
About the Red Lighter, I didnt quite get it, you mean he's kinda out of her league?
Can't wait for the next episode :)
PS. check my blog I happened to mention you there
http://depressedy.blogspot.com/2010/02/because-i-love-you-part-ii.html
Debby: out of her league yes, and may be her way is full of troubles as well.
ReplyDeleteThank a lot for what u have written, it is very re-assuring :)
Thanks Engy & Shaimaa
ReplyDelete10 years ya Engy!!!
Noha,
ReplyDeleteHey Mohamed, I cannot wait to knwo all about the mixed signals :)
Thnx Mohaly for the classification, it is eye-opener :)... I just want to know what would make a man think he is out of woman's league? Is it something that she do that makes him "Wrongly" think s?
ReplyDeleteI absolutely like all the discussion here....
ReplyDeleteEngy....I agree with all u said,
Can't wait to hear about mixed signals tooo:)
Mohaly, plz answer the question "out of her league"...why?what makes a man though hard go for it and what makes him reluctant?
For no.4
ReplyDeleteit can be for many reasons, for example:
1. Big difference in social/cultural standard (either up or down) where he can't communicate or be on same wave length.
2. Big difference in financial level (if he is not tam3an feeha) that he can't afford.
3. Reputation As a trouble maker (betala3 3een el regala) for one reason or another (too aggressive, laz2a,..etc). This applies on her family too.
and other stuff..everyone has his own reasons here..
That was good to know. and a little secret some women do the same :)
ReplyDeleteYou know you are torturing us by putting us on hold till next Sunday for the next episode!!!
la walahy ya ze2red, it is better to fix a day for the series in order to have the time to write.
ReplyDeletePlus there will be other posts till then.. there is one very related coming up tomorrow that wasnt easy for me to write at all.. a practical application of mixed signs before discussing it next sunday...
I have to raise a point though im not sure U'd agree with it.....Most men & women actually don't know what they truly want.....so the whole classification might be self-misleading sometimes....people surprise us...we surprise ourselves, if we keep our minds n hearts open (to life, change,growing up, new perspectives)
ReplyDeleteI asked about number 4 coz it happens so often around me.....suddenly the guy holds back n a friend is sitting with no knowledge whatsoever, from what they say, i feel men are more reluctant these days to get married....I feel it is more related to what he aims for...if it is careeer, he'll be consumed till late thirties...if he has family issues( helping them) may be till forties...if he wants to study and he is in twenties may be by thirty (depending on career n social status)...if he is a guy who believe in (affiars) , he might up never get married or marry in his fifties...it is more about their condition not what they really want....therefore, they type of relation will depend on his needs in each stage regardless what type of girl he meets throughout that journey...
I believe that Friendship between men & women is the most profound n longlife...coz in love, there is so much to deal with "complicated , in a nice way, yet complicated" but friendship is Simple & more reliable
I agree ya Sherry
ReplyDeletebut these are the causes that lead to the choice in classification
there is big room for confusion, check no.5 where many dont know even how to classify (including intellectuals and people who know what they want kaman).
and yes, guys are much more reluctant in getting married...rabena yostor
yes, friendship between men and women are possible.i have many male colleagues, who turned to be very good friends over years. their wives joined the group and we form a lovely group of friends.
ReplyDeleteit is real in every meaning of the word.u can say its a mixture of friendship/brothers/sisters.
the upgrade in feelings is possible of course, none can forecast it or stop it.
only its up to both parties then to decide what's best practice for them.
"downgradeing" to friendship again is possible.feelings are not for eternity, they change.
sob7an Allah he made our hearts moving to adjust to life's needs.
for me, my friends are precious, and i am willing to adjust my feelings than loose someone i see as a good friend.
did i answer ur question :))))
since you're being honest, i will share some of the female thinking procedure on the matter before i give my 2 cents...
ReplyDelete1- i think we notice it when we're being "evaluated" as potential lovers... we have antennas that pick that vibe (unless the guys is reaaaaaaallly subtle/shy about it and hides it well behind a no.3 or something)... we either react in a friendly way and sort of flirt-ish to maintain that kind of attention, or we try to send subtle signals that we're not interested while remaining friendly if we want the romance-free friendship...
2- unless the woman is up to the same thing, she really avoids being categorized there... like you said, when both have that kind of interest, the signs are too out there to be mistaken... and it depends on the lifestyle and how much it's influenced by society, be it our society or any other...
3- this is my personal favorite category... i have friends whom i would go to for advice that need a male perspective and i am always grateful for having someone there for that "purpose"... one of my "secret keeper and eye opener" friends said that our very high level of communication could dramatically diminish if we ever develop romantic feelings for each other... i sort of agree with him, as much as i agree with you that it's better to base a relationship on friendship rather than just romance... but i can't help but believe that the communication could be affected... i wouldn't take my chance with one of those friends because of the risk i would lose his friendship if it doesn't work out, and friendship like that takes years to build, definitely not worth the risk! but that's just me and my issues, i think any girl would be lucky to explore further possibilities in such friendship if it's mutual...
4- i think women have red lighters too, especially that in our culture, they usually expect to be approached rather than approach... but what if a girl is actually interested in a guy who thinks she's out of his league; i mean that's sort of sad, no? especially that at the end of the day, it's a matter of perspective... he thinks she's out of his league, she doesn't, he'll never know and he'll never give it a try, touche!
5- this is like a nightmare... it has hot/cold moments and it confuses the living crap out of both men and women, especially if it's mutual... communication channels are really messed up and both send mix signals and i think they don't always know what they want... may be there are factors that make it even worse; like loneliness, or rebound phases, or too many mutual interests on really peculiar and specific things, aaaand i think the confusion is there because there are usually too many deal breakers about that person; like habits that you know you just can't live with, or something about their character that you know for a fact you hate...
it's all about communication, and it's hard because people usually are vague about their wants/needs/emotions/likes/dislikes... some because they can't really communicate them well, and some because they think it's smart and witty... i personally enjoy the wits, but there has to be a point where playing smart is put off for the sake of better communication, don't you think??
at any point if a person asks me point blank how i feel about him, i would like to think that i'd be able to say it as bluntly as possible to avoid any of the miscommunication that comes along... my problem is that i personally think men can't handle that kind of bluntness and that it usually confuses them or throws them off thinking i am playing a new mind game, when at that point, i am rather relieved i don't have to play games...
was that of any help?
insomniac, was it of any help.. are u kidding me, tab it was of help to the extent that I need to re-think about the next episode (sebteely eih aktebo ;)
ReplyDeleteyes all about communication dear..
how it's possible to differ between a man who wants some girl to be his girlfriend and wanting her only physically, this can show mixed signals, dont you think?
ReplyDeletecause men dont think properly when it comes to sex, no?
Anonymous, who are u please?
ReplyDeleteSome men don't think prob. when it comes to sex, but the majority are sane enough to decide if they want a physical relation only or more.
Sometimes a man play the role of the lover and he only wants sex.. the girl can be fooled in the beginning but it is very hard to continue specially after they have sex .. it is hard to fake feelings there..
I'm sorry Mohaly but I FEEL YOU! and had to comment. the internet will always be a place to exchange ideas and congenial friendships for me. but never a place to meet 'the one.' maybe it's because i'm a gen Xer and not a mili, i know you are an xer as well!
ReplyDeleteInteresting discussion, and there's so much more that can be said.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct that we (men) use a classification system, and it's more or less what you outlined. I think it can differ slightly from man to man, but again you covered the basics.
The one thing I will add is that the categories aren't exclusive, so a woman can fit into more than one. For example, a man can have a good friendship foundation with a woman, then grow to be physically attracted to her. So they can be combined, but it has to be in a certain order, and like a few people pointed out good communication and a solid friendship is a good basis for it all. If you're both honest, and the communication is wide open, there's nothing to fear, so men, or women, can say whatever is on their mind.
Welcome Ticknad and Mindfull
ReplyDeleteThanks Ticknad.
Mindfull, I do agree.
I want to add a something no one mentioned it,,can a married woman have a good and pure freindship with another man than her husband? and what if her husband agrees for this freindship to happen,is it right or wrong?
ReplyDelete